Help needed with midi

Discussion in 'Phoenix' started by ace, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. ace

    ace Member

    Hi I really hope someone can help me here.
    I just purchased an Akai APC Mini to use with Pheonix Live 4.
    However Im getting really frustrated by the way the software seems to automatically map the apc.
    According to the online manual for Live, it says we must put a start address Eg: #1 to launch clips (40).
    The software seems to assign channels 1-40 to the clips running from top left to bottom right, however the APC Mini's channel 1 starts on the bottom left running up to the right top. There are also elements that I don't want to map (Eg: fine macro's of effect sliders) this leaves me without sufficient sliders to control all my effects. Another thing I need to know is how map the led output to the APC Mini. Is there any sort of midi xml file that I can edit to assign things according to the way I would like? Please tell me I didn't just waste my money buying this midi controller. Any help will be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Daniel-Pangolin-Support

    Daniel-Pangolin-Support Pangolin Support Staff Member

    Dear Ace,

    I am sorry that I need to tell you that the only the AKAI APC but not the APC Mini or AKAI APC MKII is currently supported on Phoenix4 Live.
    After the APC AKAI changed the protocol and because of that, the APC Mini and APC MKII behave different from the AKAI APC.

    Generally there is a fixed mapping in Phoenix4 Live for the AKAI APC that is assigned, when you change the "Mode" to AKAI Mode (Settings>Mode>Akai).
    Because of the special Bi-directional communication you can not change that in Phoenix4 Live and the settings for MIDI assignment should not be touched, when you operate in AKAI Mode.
    Only if the AKAI in Phoenix AKAI Mode is not recognized automatically (- generally does- ) you can re-set the assigment at "Settings>MIDI/DMX" for use Midi-input/outout. Thats all.

    The MIDI settings in Phoenix4 Live in general are for "other" MIDI devices, which can be programmed and extent the live control feature with an external device support.

    If you like to know more about, how to program a hardware unit from AKAI, please have a look on their website, as there are some technical information about how the specific communication protocol needs to be used.

    If you like to use the AKAI APC Mini for laser control, please have a look at Pangolin Quickshow, where a full mapping is already done.
    For more control and further MIDI devices, like the AKAI APC MKII give Pangolin BEYOND a try, where you can setup extensive MIDI options.

    Kind regards

    Daniel
     
  3. ace

    ace Member

    Hi Daniel.
    Thanks for your response. Yes, that is sad news about the APC mini.
    I managed to get it working using Bomes midi translator, but it really was a headache to get working and isn't quite complete.
    I have no output lighting, what is the purpose of midi out in the settings? as it doesn't seem to do anything for me
    I'm going to try access the controls via dmx instead, however it seems like creating a "phoenix fixture" in my lighting software could be an issue
    As the dmx channels directly correspond to the midi channels. Ie: the fixture needs 108 Channels (crazy!!)
    Instead of using 108 different channels, all the midi/dmx could've been done using just 2/3 channels with 0-127 in each.
    In my opinion, the whole midi/dmx platform in Pheonix is very poorly implemented.
    I do have another issue though, I'm unable to access the timeline & preset buttons via midi.
    The midi/dmx monitor shows that Pheonix Live is receiving the correct midi channels for those buttons.
    But unfortunately, those buttons just don't respond to any midi input, I have tried changing the channels in Pheonix but that also didn't work.
    I must be honest, I feel rather disheartened by my purchase of Pheonix as it seems this is really an abandoned software.
    I mean if there is only 10/15 posts about Pheonix on this entire forum..........
    Is there any possibility for bug fixes, updates or feature requests?
    What is the future of the software?
    (Sorry to offload on you Daniel, I'm just voicing my concerns - I do appreciate your help)
     
  4. ace

    ace Member

    Pangolin BEYOND is $3495.00
    So that I can midi map my $70.00 APC Mini - Seriously?
     
  5. Daniel-Pangolin-Support

    Daniel-Pangolin-Support Pangolin Support Staff Member

    Dear Ace,

    >>I have no output lighting, what is the purpose of midi out in the settings? as it doesn't seem to do anything for me

    Midi Out in the concept of MIDI, is a feedback for the controlling device to trigger an action (like lighting up a (specific) LED on the hardware device)

    >>dmx channels directly correspond to the midi channels
    I think that is a missunderstanding. In fact, MIDI channels is something different than DMX channels and can not be mapped this way.
    DMX 512 has 512 channels and on every channel 255 values can be send.
    MIDI has 16 channels, and Phoenix listens on all of them.
    Phoenix uses a simplified method to operate MIDI where the 127 notes correspond to 127 channels and the velocity (0-127) is like the sent values (at DMX), additionally Phoenix uses MIDI CCs (Control Channels)

    >>In my opinion, the whole midi/dmx platform in Pheonix is very poorly implemented.
    In Phoenix Live, the MIDI /DMX -IN part is perfect for controlling the software. The OUT part aims more on simpler devices with less channels. The DMX -out part is not intended for controlling several devices with several channels. Its possible but not convenient.

    >>I do have another issue though, I'm unable to access the timeline & preset buttons via midi.
    We tried it here recently. They work as expected. Did you use MIDI CCs for those buttons?
    The preset buttons with DMX and MIDI work like in preset copy mode.
    If you use the Timeline buttons with MIDI do not forget to set the MIDI mode to toggle for those buttons, otherwise it works like in Flash mode.
    The timeline starts automatically on activation.

    >>I must be honest, I feel rather disheartened by my purchase of Pheonix as it seems this is really an abandoned software.
    There will be an update within the next weeks.

    >>So that I can midi map my $70.00 APC Mini - Seriously?
    With Phoenix, not. In Pangolin Quickshow, it is already fully premapped and ready to use.
    For BEYOND there will be a preset soon. There are already some for AKAI APC and APC MKII.

    >>What is the future of the software?
    What ever will be, you can only do right with using Pangolin Quickshow and BEYOND as well.

    Kind regards

    Daniel
     
  6. ace

    ace Member

    The buttons are sending 'note on/off' if I remember correctly - I think the faders are sending 'CC' :(
    Aaah!! - Maybe this is where I'm making the mistake, I'll try change that to toggle & report back.
    Wow! - Now that is a response I certainly wasn't expecting. That's really fantastic news, I honestly thought Phoenix was just gonna fade away.
    I know, unfortunately in my country the exchange rate is 13:1 which is totally out of reach for the most but big companies & the super wealthy.
    This is why I opted for Pheonix, as it was more affordable & within my reach. I'm sooo happy to hear the software is going to be abandoned.
    Thanks for your help Daniel, I will try changing some of my settings & let you know the outcome.
    Regards Ace.
     
  7. ace

    ace Member

    Edit - ISNT going to be abandoned
     
  8. ace

    ace Member

    Any new on this?
    Yes......... I'm excited!!
     
  9. Daniel-Pangolin-Support

    Daniel-Pangolin-Support Pangolin Support Staff Member

    Dear Ace,

    Will be available in the next few weeks. Unfortunatelly no specific release date.
    But subscribe to our newsletter and you will be one of the first to know about it!

    Subscribe to our: Pangolin.com/newsletter

    Kind regards

    Daniel
     
  10. ace

    ace Member

    Unless I missed it somehow.... what happened to the update?
    Phoenix users could really use a bit of love here.
    Can't say I haven't been patient.
    Please, please, please, don't leave us behind.
     
  11. DjChrizz9480

    DjChrizz9480 New Member

    Is there a way to map my akai apc mini for phoenix live?
    The buttons doesnt work how i want.
    Or tutotial how to use my apc mini.
    Thanks....
     
  12. ace

    ace Member

    In short - no. Not conveniently anyway. If u map it, the midi numbers run sequentially according to the GUI. So basically you can't bypass any buttons / sliders you don't want to map. You also don't get any led feedback on the controller. Unfortunately although Daniel promised us an update, nothing has happened. It seems like this software is truly abandoned!
     

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